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donluca
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

17 Apr 2018, 21:17

I see a huge number of requests for console based system and wanted to throw out there one thing to think about.

As rare, limited in quantity and pricy some consoles and games might be, those will never reach the absurd state of arcade hardware.

I really hope TO won't stop putting out solutions for arcade hardware because while there are already solutions for consoles (burn games to CD, mod the console to accept backups, flashcarts, etc...) there are simply no alternatives for arcade games other than buying the board or using MAME.

So please, although the home console world is WAY more profitable than arcade, don't ditch arcade hardware!

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opt2not
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

17 Apr 2018, 21:33

^ That being said, as much as I'd love an NGPC RGB-out solution, I would easily buy up a Cave Multi-board. Cave games have gone bananas in price in the last couple years, to the point where it's out or reach for a lot of arcade enthusiasts.

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Mike
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 06:05

opt2not wrote:
17 Apr 2018, 21:33
^ That being said, as much as I'd love an NGPC RGB-out solution, I would easily buy up a Cave Multi-board. Cave games have gone bananas in price in the last couple years, to the point where it's out or reach for a lot of arcade enthusiasts.
Totally agree on the Cave multi. There is so much excellent stuff out there that I know I will never get my hands on due to the price.
3rdStrikeMike @ ng forums

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donluca
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 11:39

Remember that the CAVE games are mostly vertical and people willing to rotate their monitors are a niche of a niche.
So unless the FPGA solution integrates a way to rotate the games so that you can play them on a horizontal monitor it's going to target a very small market.

IMHO, getting a Xbox360 and modding the drive so you can play burned games it's the way to go. Most of the ports are great and play really well, especially if you have a good arcade stick.

Also, some CAVE games are being ported to other platforms, for example Mushihimesama and Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu are on Steam and after all the fixes done they are pretty good. Degica says they are looking forward to port more. Meanwhile M2 has been doing *fantastic* ports with Dangun Feveron for PS4 being their last one and Ketsui is announced as well.

IMHO it's better to wait for ports rather than starting developing an FPGA solution which is a HUGE can of worm to open, due to how absurd the original hardware was.

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Kidpanda
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 14:37

donluca wrote:
18 Apr 2018, 11:39
Remember that the CAVE games are mostly vertical and people willing to rotate their monitors are a niche of a niche.
So unless the FPGA solution integrates a way to rotate the games so that you can play them on a horizontal monitor it's going to target a very small market.

IMHO, getting a Xbox360 and modding the drive so you can play burned games it's the way to go. Most of the ports are great and play really well, especially if you have a good arcade stick.

Also, some CAVE games are being ported to other platforms, for example Mushihimesama and Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu are on Steam and after all the fixes done they are pretty good. Degica says they are looking forward to port more. Meanwhile M2 has been doing *fantastic* ports with Dangun Feveron for PS4 being their last one and Ketsui is announced as well.

IMHO it's better to wait for ports rather than starting developing an FPGA solution which is a HUGE can of worm to open, due to how absurd the original hardware was.

All the ports have incorrect timing. The only port that gets it right is the Futari port on 360. The others all have slowdown timing issues or input lag unless you turn off vsync which cause screen tearing. The hardware the CV1000 uses is really just a SH-3 with ram. A multi of the cave boards would be outstanding but you really can't just make a multi for the current hardware that's out. Literally all of my friends play cave games, so I'm not sure what the niche of a niche is that you are talking about.
Yea sure, no.

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donluca
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 15:08

The shmup genre is a niche itself and people who are actually involved to the point of playing it in TATE is an even smaller niche, so your user pool is pretty small, smaller than, say, a multi based on the arcade PSX boards ZN-1, ZN2, Taito FX, etc. (which I'm not really interested in, but saw on DS forums that a lot of people were voting for it).

Also, I'm not sure if you've personally tried the ports (X360 and Steam), but taking out SaiDaiOuJou on X360 which has pretty bad input lag, the others run pretty well now and, most importantly, with the correct slowdown, opposed to MAME and despite the blitter settings it has.
The Mushi thing which had to keep V-sync off was in the first version they published, they have fixed it a long time ago (and only some people were affected, I didn't have issues in first place).

Anyway, not trying to turn off anyone or anything, just putting out some ideas on what the priority list would be like.
I'd absolutely love a CAVE multi for my cab (although rotating a 29" CRT... ugh) but there are other multis which I'd vastly prefer having first.

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opt2not
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 21:29

donluca wrote:
17 Apr 2018, 21:17
I really hope TO won't stop putting out solutions for arcade hardware because while there are already solutions for consoles (burn games to CD, mod the console to accept backups, flashcarts, etc...) there are simply no alternatives for arcade games other than buying the board or using MAME.
So you want Terraonion to continue making arcade hardware solutions...
donluca wrote: Remember that the CAVE games are mostly vertical and people willing to rotate their monitors are a niche of a niche.
So unless the FPGA solution integrates a way to rotate the games so that you can play them on a horizontal monitor it's going to target a very small market.
...but only if it's horizontal games? Come on man. You can't turn your back on Vertical orientated games when it comes to Arcade. Arcade games were made up of mainly Vertical games up to about the 90's era when fighting games took the mainstream.

You want arcade hardware.Yet you want to cut out a major set of game and genres...

As you stated earlier:
As rare, limited in quantity and pricy some consoles and games might be, those will never reach the absurd state of arcade hardware.
Cave games are at an absurd state! It's a perfect example of an arcade system that is well out of reach for a lot of people.

As for the 360 ports, they're mainly trash. The system is trash too. You think your 360 is going to last you 10+ years? Compare that to an FPGA system/Multi...which do you think is going to continue to work 10 years from now?

Look, this thread is for suggestions to TO about what people are interested in for them to develop. I didn't know it was a "poop on other people's wants" thread. I for one could care less about a Sega CD solution personally, but you don't see me coming in here and coming up with some lame reasons to not develop it.

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donluca
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 21:36

donluca wrote:
18 Apr 2018, 15:08
Anyway, not trying to turn off anyone or anything, just putting out some ideas on what the priority list would be like.
I'd absolutely love a CAVE multi for my cab (although rotating a 29" CRT... ugh) but there are other multis which I'd vastly prefer having first.
I love quoting myself.

EDIT: some more interesting data. In MAME catalog there are a total of 1048 games with vertically oriented monitors vs 5893 horizontal. This is calculated excluding alt versions, bootlegs and clones, only originals.

Your point about the x360 reliability is absolutely valid though, I already had one crap on me, but the new black ones seem to be free of the RROD issue. Time will tell.

About port quality: I feel people speak just by reading forums without trying them out yourself. Give Futari, Daifukkatsu, MuchiMuchiPork and Guwange (this is a very barebone port, but runs perfectly) a try, because they run really well and accuracy is spot on. EspGaluda II as well. Haven't tried the others but I plan to do so when I have some free time on my hands! :D

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opt2not
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

18 Apr 2018, 22:53

Well I just sold my old JTagged X360, which I installed all the Cave ports on, and I can tell you from actual experience they are not the greatest ports. I believe the PS2 ports are superior from what I remember.

Anyway, let’s keep this thread as a suggestions thread, not a suggestions critique thread. There is no need to argue on things that are speculative.

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Kidpanda
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Re: What you guys want us to build for the next projects ?

19 Apr 2018, 05:10

I own al of the pcbs of the ports that are on 360 so yea, I know what I'm talking about, dont need any forum guy telling me otherwise.
Yea sure, no.

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